Ask Mike: Who was John Doe?
Hey Guys,
When a man dies and can’t be identified, police refer to him as a “John Doe.” Similarly, when an unidentified woman is found dead, she is called “Jane Doe.” Here’s why.
The Word Detective, an old school site from columnist Evan Morris, has the answer. Morris explains that the term dates back to the reign of England’s King Edward III. Back then, there was a legal debate going on about the Acts of Ejectment.
The debate had to do with a hypothetical landowner dubbed “John Doe” who rents property to “Richard Roe,” who then attempts to evict Doe from his own land. According to Morris, the debate was a “hallmark of legal theory.” The moniker John Doe became well known, both in and outside legal circles. Over the years, the name “John Doe” became synonymous with an unknown or unnamed person.
But let’s say there is more than one unidentified person involved in a case. What do we call the other people? Subsequent males are called “Richard Roe” and “John Stiles.” If there are two unknown females, the first is Jane Doe, and the second is Mary Major. In Roe vs. Wade, the landmark Supreme Court case on the legality of abortions, “Jane Roe” was a combination of “Jane Doe” and “Richard Roe.” The plaintiff’s real name was Norma McCorvey.
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That’s actually really interesting to know! I never knew there were subsequent names that were “official”, I always assumed they were just called John Doe 2 or John Doe B. Cool Stuff!
Mike, you da man!
Great information. I never knew the origin of John Doe. Thanks for helping us understand!
I always linked the term to D.O.A dead on arrival ! For some reason.
John Doe (American)
a man or boy whose real name must be kept secret or is not known, especially in a court of law
I thank you for that. I haven’t “learned something new” (supposedly every day
) in many days. Also, the ultimate question is “Who is John Galt?” 
This is really interesting. I never knew the term John Doe originated in England, because it is only used in America and not in the UK now. On British cop shows they just talk about ‘unidentified male/female’!
It’s pretty simple, at the time; Jane was the most common female name, John the most common male name, Doe the most common surname.
These names — John Doe and Richard Roe — had no particular significance, aside from “Doe” (a female deer) and “Roe” (a small species of deer found in Europe) being commonly known nouns at the time. But the debate became a hallmark of legal theory, and the name “John Doe” in particular gained wide currency in both the legal world and general usage as a generic stand-in for any unnamed person. “John Doe” and “Richard Roe” are, to this day, mandated in legal procedure as the first and second names given to unknown defendants in a case (followed, if necessary, by “John Stiles” and “Richard Miles”). The name “Jane Doe,” a logical female equivalent, is used in many state jurisdictions, but if the case is federal, the unnamed defendant is dubbed “Mary Major.”
Doe has the significance of the last name that is really unknown.
That’s so cool! I bet I could impress all my cool friends with this as we discuss math this Friday night.
interesting….thanks!
I dont get it if the guy was well known then why is that the name for the unknown
something have to say by who was dead so why they the name.. it’s all fate about the name “JOHN”
That was really interesting!
I did find that very interesting. I’ve know about John Doe and Richard Roe for a while now, and Jane Doe more recently, but it’s nice to know where these things come from.
so who is kaiser soze then?
Now I’m curious about the story behind the name “Suzy Q.”!
And I always thought that John Doe was an American term in origin. Nowadays an anonymous person in the UK is referred to as a Joe/Jane Bloggs.
Then again I have heard it said that a lot of American terms and expressions are closer to original English than modern British English. One possible explanation given for this is that as pilgrims started migrating in the 17th century, older English terms were not being mixed with new European terms that were crossing over to England from Europe and so geography slowed down the corruption in the America’s.
Of course all things must change, now in parts of the western United Statest you guys have “Spanglish”, just as in India they have “Hindglish”.
If John Doe and Richard Roe were “hypothetical” (not real) litigants in the time of Edward III, why did the legal debaters choose these names? We still don’t know the reason, only the earliest known use.
interesting.tnx for info.
What about the poor unfortunate fellow whose real name IS John Doe? When the coroner sticks a toe tag on this guy, what does it say?
>Now I’m curious about the story behind the name “Suzy Q.”!
Suzy Q is the name of the Hostess product that was used to knock out Rocky Marciano.
I always thought it went sequential by the alphabet as their middle initial: John A. Doe, John B. Doe, etc. or Jane A. Doe, Jane B. Doe, etc.
I was under the impression that with multiple unidentified bodies they used John Doe #1, John Doe #2, etc.
What if a man you were investigating really had the name “John Doe”?
Coincidentally, the preface to a book on boat names credits Edward III for an edict requiring all British subjects to choose a surname, to eliminate the confusion of single names.
That was a different slant on that inquiry, good to know! Thanks!.
What about the name, John Smith?
I was always under the impression that John/Jane was given to someone who had no ID and DOA meant Dead On Arrival
Thinks there is some mis-information. Firstly there would be no way of ever knowing if this conversation did take place, but the term John Doe, is an American term, even though it may be used in Britain, it is rare.
How does “John Smith and Jane Smith” represented and how they came to be know?
ohn Doe is an intelligent adventure series, named after the main character, albeit not by name: ‘John Doe’ is called thus because nobody knows the name of the man who literally fell from the sky, naked, in the sea near an obscure island. When Far Eastern fishermen save him, it soon becomes clear his memory is in a paradoxical state: he has total amnesia concerning his own past, even his real name, but has more factual knowledge stored in his brain then even the Google computer banks on every possible other subject, as if he had memorized the Library of Congress, so one rarely needs to read anything when he’s around. He also is intelligent and inquisitive enough to understand and use much of that knowledge, and keeps rolling into all kinds of weird mysteries, teaming up with various characters, each of which must first be convinced he’s legit, such as police detectives Frank Hayes and Jamie Avery.
A Medieval precedent from England is still used by the courts of the several States (USA) for civil suits at common law involving a Class of Defendants (usually persons unknown to the Plaintiff) with interest in a named primary Defendant’s property, described as “Does the 1st through the Nth, inclusive.”
I laughed with these names
Thanks for making my day.
I actually heard this term today watching Grey’s Anatomy. I didn’t know it had any meaning! Thanks.
It wasnt me officer -I was only eating a doenut !
Its really very much interesting and informative as well. Thanks.
I found out the following from both wikipedia and dictionary.com.
WIKI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doe
DICTIONARY.COM:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/John+Doe?s=t&ld=1032
and…
John Doe
fictitious plaintiff in a legal action, attested from 1768 (in Blackstone). The fictitious defendant was Richard Roe. By 1852, John Doe was being used for “any man whose name is not known.” John Doe warrant attested from 1935. John Q. Public “average American citizen” is from 1937. In legal usage, John
Doe replaced earlier John-a-nokes (1531), who usually was paired with John-a-stiles.
Wow thank you for the info and am i the only onelaughing my butt off at these names??
thankyou for giving this information
a human being!
very well explanation. thanks mike and keep it up.
Your topic is very interesting, I learned something today, we used to taken for granted some simple facts in life like John Doe, who would have care why it is John Doe, but you had given us such an awesome information and explanation. Keep it up!
The names “John Doe” for males and “Jane Doe” or “Jane Roe” for females are used as placeholder names for a party whose true identity is unknown or must be withheld in a legal action, case, or discussion.[1] The names are also used to refer to a corpse or hospital patient whose identity is unknown. This practice is widely used in the United States and Canada, but is never used in other English-speaking countries including the United Kingdom itself, from where the use of “John Doe” in a legal context originates. The name Joe Bloggs is used in the UK instead[citation needed], as well as in Australia and New Zealand.
THANKS…..
@_ _ _ _ _ _ _@
It is vitally important that information like this is preserved and presented to young people so they will know where colloquial expressions come from. Everyone benefits from this kind of explanation of things that are normally taken for granted.
wow crazy
i saw this on discovery channel this morning wasn’t it on and island.
My theory, is that John Doe and Jane Doe are dead people, John Doe is referred to a dead guy and you know what Jane Doe is, I still wonder if they were real people, how they died.
Uh, cool?
I never realized names were changed in the case of Roe vs. Wade. This was interesting how all of this came to be. I also never thought about when there was more than on Jane or John Doe.
Thanks for sharing this valuable trivia!
What if someone just happens to be named John or Jane Doe? Doe’s a real surname. Interesting history, though.
Very interesting, had always wondered what they would call the 2nd and subsequent unknown persons…
Fantastic stuff, it’s good to see that history is kept up in even the smallest of matters.
He is the famous counterpart of Juan dela Cruz in the Philippines who wanted to sign anonymously.
@Coolie, Yeah. Like Really Is That Supposed To Be Cool? I Learned That In 5th Grade!
Interesting. I thought unknowns were called ‘Jack’ like in, Jack the Ripper.
I still waiting on “John and Jane Smith”?????
it’s amazing that you decided to discuss this, because i’ve been asking about this for two weeks. thanks mike
in England we use the term..joe bloggs.
Wow… Thats really interesting! Thanks!:)
then……that still doesnt answer the question…it answers how it became known. it doesnt ans the question still.
As an Admitting Nurse in a Mental Hospital…..I have
met many John and Jane Doe s. They soon learn if they want to leave, they need to know their name.
You missed the point, Mike. At least, you missed the point I was looking for. I wanted to know why the name “John Doe” became synonymous for an unknown person. You said the name became well-known both in and out of the legal circle. But you did not tell us why it became synonymous for the unknown people. Anyways, thanks for the effort!
I did not know….thank you for the info
Malcolm X
I had no idea that john doe was actually a person!
I believe John Doe is also the singer of the punk band “X.” If I may say, they’re a great band
Thanks. A great Information. BTW I have seen and heard “John Doe” on the American TV series and it was great.