Ask Mike: Don’t ask don’t tell
Hey Guys,
The “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy against gays serving openly in the military is over. The web is full of renewed interest in the phrase’s history. Who, folks want to know, coined the expression?
Credit goes to the late Charles Moskos, a military sociologist and professor from Northwestern University. The phrase came about during the first term of the Clinton administration. At the time the policy was viewed as a kind of compromise. It allowed gay men and women to serve in the military, provided they did not openly admit to their sexual preference. It also prohibited other military personnel from asking questions. In other words, don’t ask, don’t tell.
When the policy was instituted, it was seen by many as a step forward. It allowed all Americans to serve, regardless of sexual orientation. After the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy was enacted, recruiters were banned from asking applicants about their orientation. However, it also put limits on gay military personnel. Should they openly admit to being gay, they could be discharged.
Beyond the controversial policy, Moskos was seen as a highly influential voice in military policy. The Wall Street Journal called him the country’s “most influential military sociologist.” Though he was the person behind the policy, Moskos did recognize its shortcomings. “I always say about ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ what Winston Churchill said about democracy: ‘It’s the worst system possible except for any other,’” remarked Moskos in an interview.
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I think its definitely a step in the right direction, since this has been troublesome for many people afraid to speak out for some time now. Though this largely won’t affect many Americans not serving in the army, its still a big step for human rights.
It’s so stupid now they are segregating them. They now have a cabin for gay people and a cabin for straight people ridiculous
I am in the navy and from what I have seen and heard there has been absolutely zero segregation thus far. In fact many still havnet come out yet in fear of making others uncomfortable. I can understand this, in many cases we share very small quarters and shower together.
Males and females are segregated for obvious reasons.
It will be hard to segregate by sexuality if not impossible.
Biggest short term issues is going to sound dumb but i swear its gonna be coming up a lot more and that will be… gay jokes. I did 6 years on a submarine and a lot of time spent just giving each other a hard time, it was 95% of the entertainment underway since we had 1 television for the whole crew and no lounge or anything like that when and if we had a lil free time.
On board we had 130ish people, you pretty much know everyone and are close. We had a couple gay sailors on board. We all knew it, not something they were open with everyone about. The fact that they were discreet about it probably made it easier to accept for others being in such small quarters all the time.
How will it change now? Maybe not at all.
Under perfect conditions it shouldn’t make a difference. However people are all different and the results can be varying.
Also there will be gays afraid to come out due simply to perceptions of other, will it affect their eval? Surely not, that would be unethical and against the rules…
Can be a problem both ways.
Senior may not like gays and truly is bias on an eval.
OR
Gay member does like his eval and blames Senior member for downgrading his achievements because hes gay.
Both can easily happen, and here we are again, up to our necks in more political stuff that has nothing to do with the real task at hand. =D
I think as Americans we aren’t happy unless we have something to argue about anyways =D
They should seperate them!
This is a mix of a good and bad thing; there will always be a homophobic nature of the people in the military (for better or for worse). Just because they’re gay doesn’t mean that they aren’t a person, and they should be able to serve their country.
Homosexuality should not be welcome in the military. This social softening is a band-wagon that everyone seems to be hopping on because they have the mis-conception that we should accept anyone in any place at anytime under any circumstance.
I’m glad DADT is gone. It’s was a compromise, and not a true form of freedom and equality for homosexuals and bisexuals in the military. I’m waiting for the day homosexual marriage is nationally recognized.
i think this country has lost all sense in morals and tradition. The USA was build around christian beliefs, another reason why education was thought of is so children can READ the bible. so when ignorant people of this day in age say so what if the president issent christian or so what if people who are serving this country is gay is completely outta context especially when it comes to the USA. if you want compromise go to another country, but then again, the president issent christian and for 2, hes a democrat, so what can you expect…..
“Don’t ask, don’t tell” (DADT) was the official United States policy on homosexuals serving in the military from December 21, 1993 to September 20, 2011.[1][2] The policy prohibited military personnel from discriminating against or harassing closeted homosexual or bisexual service members or applicants, while barring openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual persons from military service. The restrictions were mandated by United States federal law Pub.L. 103-160 (10 U.S.C. § 654). The policy prohibited people who “demonstrate a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts” from serving in the armed forces of the United States, because their presence “would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability.”[3] The act prohibited any homosexual or bisexual person from disclosing his or her sexual orientation or from speaking about any homosexual relationships, including marriages or other familial attributes, while serving in the United States armed forces. The act specified that service members who disclose that they are homosexual or engage in homosexual conduct should be separated (discharged) except when a service member’s conduct was “for the purpose of avoiding or terminating military service” or when it “would not be in the best interest of the armed forces”.
“i think this country has lost all sense in morals and tradition. The USA was build around christian beliefs, another reason why education was thought of is so children can READ the bible.”
From this person’s statement of blatant ignorance of the Constitution of the United States (America was founded on secular values, free of religious rule, see the First Amendment) and the fact that they actually consider being homosexual “immoral” while churches constantly get away with criminal behavior (including sexual assault of children), I can’t help but wonder if this person is an intentional troll, or just that ignorant.
From this person’s statement of blatant ignorance of the Constitution of the United States (America was founded on secular values, free of religious rule, see the First Amendment)
While it’s true you have a right to be away from religion, morals, or whatever there is, it doesn’t necesarrily make it right. The United states is practically willing to allow anything nowadays in my eyes, btw speaking out against homosexuality isn’t wrong or ignorant in any way, it’s extremists and violent people that are ignorant and hateful. Now not all churches do wrong things, I’ll agree some do, but not all do, but hey, does that mean gay people don’t do anything wrong? nope. The U.S is allowing way too much freedom. I think in the next 20 years people will be protesting as to why they can’t date children, or protest why they can’t commit crime. Freedom is everything here. I think the basic biology is what makes homosexuality immoral. It’s a biological dead end between 2 partners of the same sex.
what is the big deal? why does it matter if you are gay or straight when your job is to kill.
just do your job, no one cares.
I believe DADT was necessary, or rather at least some camouflage of homosexuals in the military. However, my opinion is not based on whether or not homosexuality is wrong; it is based on appearance.
We have to face it: our enemies view homosexual men as weakness. And half the battles are won without being fought due to image of the other side being invulnerable. Having homosexuals openly in the military could soften the image of our military might even further than it has already been softened, and make us seem like ripe targets for attack. We are not a bastion, and we may never have been; but now there is no denying it, no making it seem so. When an army is more about fairness than might, it’s then that a nation has a problem.
Personally I beleive that it’s a good thing. I personaly know that if I was in the military I would want to be in a seperate cabin. I had gym with a lesbian last year and it was aqward for everyone so I’m sure its even more aqward to have to live in the same place as them. But I’d like to point out that I am totally against gays. You aren’t lady GaGa and you were not born that way. Being gay or lesbian is a choice not a gene. So we shouldn’t have to be put in an aqward spot because of a choice other people made themselves.
Don’t ask. don’t tell DID NOT prohibit homosexuals from openly serving in the military. It was the OPPOSITE. President Clinton instituted the policy of PRETENDING they were not violating the long standing TOTAL BAN on homosexual serving AT ALL. Don’t ask, don’t tell was NOT repealed. It was EXPANDED.
What will occur on the battle field and what occurs on the base at home will be different that’s for sure. Our enemies who don’t tolarate homosexual behaviour will take full advantage of this to give glory in the fight against the great satan USA.
Not allowing paraplegics to join in combat, I can understand. Not allowing criminals or illegal aliens to join, I can understand as well. But not allowing a U.S. citizen to serve their country because they are homosexual, I cannot. Why does it matter who they sleep with back home?
“When the policy was instituted, it was seen by many as a step forward. It allowed all Americans to serve, regardless of sexual orientation.”
So.. if it was repealed, can recruiters once again ask people their orientation on applications or deny people due to sexual orientation, but don’t necessarily have to discharge them if they openly express such orientation? Or was it repealed and replaced with a different policy? It was enacted for a purpose, what’s been enacted in its place?
im all for gays and shit but I think this is going to be a distraction for the soldiers now that it can be open and talked about freely Gays will try to persuit none gays then that mofo gonna get knocked out and Its gonna cause a big Rukus like I said im ok with gays and gay marriage but the military isnt a place for that shit its a life or death situation most of the time.
And to my earlier point I dont mind gays being in the military thats your own business but I think you should leave it out side the military and not be open about it
I’m just tired of everyone judging eachother. Being gay is not a choice. You should not be punished in any way for something you were born with. It doesnt matter what job you have or if you are trying to join the military.
Mike,
Charles Moskos is not the author of this phrase, though he may have renewed it’s usage.
Actually the “Don’t ask don’t tell” policy originated A.D. 98-117, with the Roman Magistrates towards Christians. It’s design was by Emperor Trajan. Christianity was new and strange to the pagan world of Rome. Christians were persecuted at the time, for being Christian. Emperor Trojan’s response to Pliny the Younger, who wrote to Trajan seeking advice on what to do with the Christians. Becoming very numerous, Pliny thought the pagan religions were being neglected. He began sentencing Christians who refused to honor the gods and the emperor to death. Pliny believed that, even if the Christians’ practices weren’t too bad, just their obstinacy was enough to be rid of them. Should he sentence them for carrying the name Christian only, or did they have to commit specific criminal acts? Emperor Trajan’s response was “Don’t ask Don’t tell”
The biggest problem with DADT, is that even if the soldier does not reveal his or her homosexuality, there is a huge chance that if a man or woman don’t fit the gender norms (regardless of their sexuality), they could be branded as homosexual and dismissed from the military for not “acting” or “looking” straight. The judgement will be entirely subjective and that is not a stable ground for this law. Aside from that, these soldiers are risking their lives to protect your well-fed-roof-over-your-head American ass, so have some goddamn respect. Stop caring how they were born, and start caring about the honorable job they are doing.
“i think this country has lost all sense in morals and tradition. The USA was build around christian beliefs, another reason why education was thought of is so children can READ the bible”
Don’t pull the religion card. Anyone who has ever read the bible, or attended church even one time knows that “Christians” are not supposed to place judgement on others. Nearly everything you’ve stated is putting a judgement on someone who can’t decide against one of the biggest parts of who they are. You try to justify your judgement with religion. No. That is not justifiable. You need to stop and get with the world that is now.
So… are recruiters still banned from inquiring about an applicant’s orientation?
Reading a few of these comments, some people seem to have the impression that there have never been gays in the military. They are completely wrong. There have been gays in the military for as long as there has been a military. They showered with others of their same gender, they slept in the same barracks as other of the same gender, and they worked side by side with all others. So why is it now a big deal that these same people that have served honorable under DADT (and before that) cans still serve honorably, and now be open about their sexuality?
“It’s so stupid now they are segregating them. They now have a cabin for gay people and a cabin for straight people ridiculous
Comment posted on September 22nd, 2011 at 12:49 pm by Zack”
Not really, they don’t let Straight Men and Women sleep in the same cabin.
This is so disgusting!!! I would NEVER serve in the army if I had to be with a lesbian! Why? What if we shower together? Bunk together? I don’t want to be with someone who is possibly interested in me romantically.
And Kat? She’s not ignorant. America is a CHRISTIAN NATION. Kthanx. It’s not even just a Christian thing. It’s a moral thing. Since when do boys kiss boys? That’s so wrong. There’s a reason it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. Two men can’t make one. Two women can’t make. Ya ding dong.
I am a Christian who could not care less about the issue of homosexuality. I would not mistreat anyone on purpose, and I would teach my children to not only be kind to everyone, but to stand up for anyone who is being bullied or picked on.
I love America, and I am thankful to anyone who serves to defend us. I would hope and pray that all military personnel would keep their eye on the ball and not lose focus of their task at hand, by creating conflict with those who are gay and serving beside them.
I would also pray that those military members who are gay would not claim discrimination where there is none, in order to advance their rank.
Christians who use the bible in order to justify hateful remarks against gays are defying what Jesus taught the world.
He said we are supposed to love one another, as we love ourselves. Since we are born being self-centered, that’s not really 100% possible, if we are honest with ourselves. But it is something we are supposed to strive for. Jesus never said for us to love one another, unless we disagree with them. In fact, he said the opposite. It is much easier to love those who act the way we WANT them to act. The power lies in reaching out to those we don’t understand.
DADT was great comfort wise. It helped men and women who feel uncomfortable around gay men or women while they have to sometimes shower and dorm together have some peace with ignorance. “ignorance is bliss” The only down fall of DADT was that they discharged willing members to serve our country just because they “came out.” If there was a way to make both gays and straight people happy then that would be great. The thing is thought that so far there isn’t a solution. I think that no matter what someone is going to be unhappy so why change the way things are and just leave it alone.
I really don’t know why is such a big deal. Is just like other things going on in communities etc…
The real reason is hiding behind a fake one. What some, I repeat, some people want, is to be able to disturb, challenge, start arguments and even self confirm that their lifestyle is the only possible way to live. And if you disagree or even “insult” them by simply living your life the way you want (not their way) then all the sudden you are a racist mother grabber.
I have friends in the army, probably too busy making sure they don’t get killed to listen to the guy next to them (doing the exact same thing) tell them about how exciting their homosexual life is.
To the person above, and person they are quoting:
Don’t worry about them, their atrocious spelling proves that they are obviously uneducated and thus probably under or misinformed.
I’m more worried about the “social softening” person. They have clearly never heard of the Spartans, let alone the Theban Band, both groups generally considered (according to my Classics teacher) as being among the greatest military forces in human history. I certainly wouldn’t mention Alexander the Great to them either (though my Classics teacher and I disagree about him and Hephaestion).
As for DADT, good for you, America. Glad you’re making progress.
I travelled in several countries and only in US among the western democracies the fact that gay and lesbian people could serve in the army become such big issue. Some of the strongest army like the English and Israeli ones, accepted gays and lesbian long time ago.
Someone do a constant reference to the Bible, sorry but the Bible allow also slavery and women submission, but this is not anymore acceptable! Why should be acceptable the discrimination against gays and lesbians? And what about the people who don’t belive in God and/or in the Bible? They do not have rights? Which is the sense of fighting in Afganistan against religious extremist like the Talibans and accept christian Talibans among us?
Thank you for bringing it to the attention of those who weren’t around or didn’t care that the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was enacted to allow gays to serve. Although this policy allowed many to avoid their duty and receive a discharge characterized as “Honorable” by proclaiming their orientation when war broke out. The new policy closes that loop hole. I served 15 years in the Navy before and immediately after the don’t ask don’t tell policy and am not near naive enough to believe that I didn’t serve with gays and lesbians and personally didn’t care so long as they adhered to the same regulations against “Public displays of affection” as every service member is expected to. I was engaged to a female sailor and when in uniform could not hold hands, hug, kiss or show any other signs of intimancy. The problem is going to come when two gay service members do these types of things in uniform and when they are written up and given an Article 15 hearing or Captain’s Mast over it they will claim its anti-gay and we’ll have a news frenzy over the enforcement of the same rules that apply to all service members without regard to sexual orientation. Bottom line … if you are gay and in the military please show the same professional decorum that is expected of all.
They better segregate them in different rooms then.
This is idiotic. Gay people serve in the military RISKING THEIR LIVES AT THEIR OVEN EXPENSE and people can’t even accept it it thinking that they shouldn’t be there? No one told them they had to go, they were kind enough to. I swear I thought this was America, the land of the free and the home of the brave. We don’t judge due to their sexual orientation. I mean, if all those pricks who approved of the law have such a problem with it, they should go fight themselves…, and see how they like it.
I have a best friend who is gay and to hear this really upset him. He’s already being made fun of anyways. It upset me too. To hear how stereotypical our country is.
Social engineering is all this is. Feelings about the right or wrong regarding homosexuality is a core belief and will not be erased by the passage of a law that forces acceptance. And the arguments that compare it to racism are absurd. Character traits and behavioral traits are not comparable. That is a simple fact of life. And vast majority of the supporters of eliminating the policy (to include our President) never spent a day in the military.
Personally, I’m opposed to gays serving openly in the military. Military life is difficult enough without being forced to share a room with someone who might develop an emotional attachment to you is not a welcome prospect.
I served 20 years in the military. The gays I encountered during my service were not someone I wanted to associate with. And Obama and the Democrat party will not legislate that feeling away. Gays can live their lives as they see fit. But that lifestyle is not compatible with the military lifestyle. That is a cold, hard fact that many gays will learn the hard way, unfortunately.
Being a bisexual, these 2 comments annoyed me.
“This is so disgusting!!! I would NEVER serve in the army if I had to be with a lesbian! Why? What if we shower together? Bunk together? I don’t want to be with someone who is possibly interested in me romantically.”
1. Why is it disgusting? Because your religion doesn’t “allow” it? I thought your bible said not to judge people.
2. So you wouldn’t wanna be around someone who likes you? True love, even?
“And Kat? She’s not ignorant. America is a CHRISTIAN NATION. Kthanx. It’s not even just a Christian thing. It’s a moral thing. Since when do boys kiss boys? That’s so wrong. There’s a reason it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. Two men can’t make one. Two women can’t make. Ya ding dong.”
1. America isn’t a Christian nation. There’s a thing called freedom of religion, ya ding dong.
2. Since when is being gay, a natural thing, immoral? Animals practice homosexuality every day.
3. There’s a thing called sperm donation and adoption.
I just don,t understand people somtimes….. If somone is gay then how will it stop them fighting in a war? separation is pointless too. Somuch for America being the “land of the free”
I think John hit it on the head they were always gay in the military.they serve their country with pride and Honor,and those of you that say;it’s morals and tradition and this country is going down hill because of it and is threatening the sanctity of marriage is all BS they act like it is contagious.if two men or women get married it would ruin our country which is BS again i stand up and salute every man woman in our military gay or not, short or tall ,blonde or red head,long hair or short.
Just a thought right now were fighting in a country that has no gays (ya right). In other words they do not allow gays they kill them. So if your taken prisoner do you come out or keep quite.
“They now have a cabin for gay people and a cabin for straight people ridiculous”
Uh yeah, doubt gays see it as such a terrible thing to be honest.
Oh my god I hate Christianity so much. Some of you commenters are the exact reason why. What is wrong with you? I cant even.
I love how everyone thinks that gay people don’t understand the meaning of the words “not interested” and “I’m straight”. If a straight guy knows a girl is gay is he still going to pursue her? No, of course not. And it;s the same for gay people.
I think it’s pathetic people are making it into a big thing. Your sexuality is not important in warfare.
This is so disgusting!!! I would NEVER serve in the army if I had to be with a lesbian! Why? What if we shower together? Bunk together? I don’t want to be with someone who is possibly interested in me romantically.
So, why would she find you attractive? What is so amazing about you that means all lesbians are just gagging for a bit of you?
thats not really an issue. why would they feel the need to tell their captors that? it wouldnt even cross my mind to go, hey dude im gay. they dont have to tell everyone, you know.
I believe it is not right risking the lives of our troops by letting these gays out there freely. It disgusting and a soldier has the right to not have to have their behind being looked at while they are fighting. When the time comes the gay one will break down and risk the lives of everyone. Its disgusting and encouraging is a giant step back. I believe they are human too but the have absolutely NO place in the army. I am not saying thing cause of my religion btw. It is very malicious having to bunk with a person who may develop an emotional and sexual attraction to another. Lets see what happens when you put 30 normal men into a group and let them fight, and 30 gays lets just see who will win the battle.
Wow. It shocks me how homophobic some people are.
I have so many things to say about this, but there is so much that I really just don’t the time and energy to write it.
I just want to quickly say that America stands for freedom of religion, and nothing else. It is not a Christian nation. One of the main reasons people come to America is for RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, along with other freedoms. Saying that gays shouldn’t represent us in the military because Christianity is the “religion of America” is like saying we should be able to beat women and own slaves because “Christianity permits it”.
Please. If you are going to make an intellectual and valid argument, get your facts straight.
It sounds like all that don’t ask/don’t tell being repealed means is that now the protection of such is taken away, and if a superior officer should ask, under penalty of(at least) insubordination, they can make you tell. Then when you do, you get cashiered.
How to get the point across. Do heterosexual men or women get to use the showers at the base gym of the sex they find sexually attractive? Gays could since Clinton.
Now we have Open Servce. Gays are able to shower in a room full of the sex they find attractive. Can Heteros do this?
We have granted a privalage to gays that heterosexual do not and never had. The ability to view the sex they find attractive in a state of undressed. In close quarters such as deployments, basic training, field training and base gym shower rooms. It has never been allowed for straight women to shower with the sex they find attractive and this also applies to straight men showering with the sex they find attractive.
Stop the discrimination against straights. From the years since the implimentation of DADT gays have been given a privalage that has been denied to straights. This has to end.
I dont think a lot of the people who dont want openly gay people in the military are all homophobic, i mean, its the same reason we separate men and women in the military, we dont want people getting distracted sexually and honestly, whether youre a homophobe or not, i think its easy to see how even a very open-minded person could be made uncomfortable by showering or sleeping in close quarters with someone who could be sexually attracted to them when theyre straight. Its a very hard issue to work out, and im not sure what people can do. i think the dont ask dont tell policy is the best we have for right now, but hopefully something better comes along in the future.
The Military is not a democracy…..The military isn’t suppose to build schools,hospitals,churchs,roads etc for people who will soon hate us anyway…Never think we should or ever will”"” Win the hearts and minds of the people”"”….(which are keywords for keep your helmit on,and your ass low)….The military isn’t the place for social experiments…..The military is suppose to “Fight and WIN WARS ….The military is suppose to KILL FOLKS,and BREAK SHIT!!! I learned all this as a US Marine Sgt. in Viet Nam long ago ;1st hand and the hard way…You seem to forget the straight GI’s should have some say in this,aren’t they the majority? The system we fight and have fought for ,doesn’t the majority RULE???If a vote was taken,I would bet the majority of service personel would vote leave the military “straight” and unchanged…God bless the republic
The number of people discharged from the military for being gay did not change after “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was implemented. So it was no protection at all for gay service members. It simply encoded what had long been the unofficial policy: Gays and lesbians could join the military and stay in as long as they could conceal the fact that they were gay or lesbian. I’m glad that bit of hypocrisy is over.
Mike, you need to shave your stubble.
personally, i do not care if they are homosexual, bisexual, tri-sexual, or any other sexual there is. if they want to fight and die to defend the people of this country, put them in a uniform and hold them to the same standards of harassment and prejudices that any member of the armed forces are.
my only question is….. why aren’t females quartered with men (or the other way around) if all these other orientations are housed together?
not looking for segregation, just curious.
consider, can a gay female be allowed into combat now? do gay men become aroused seeing other men so to make the straight men feel uncomfortable?
not sure where the line is anymore, we should either be all in or all out as we are still being bigoted by not thinking of others freedoms or feelings. after all a sensitive man may not like being looked at in a lurid manner by a gay man any more than a woman would like being leered at by a straight man.
so many new rules to learn to respect some at the same time losing respect for others.
being retired military 1975-2008 it did not matter what they were or there preference ,my only concern was there being able to defend them selves and me and country.
Going by people’s reactions to this topic, I just have to wonder if you think gay people are like you or are not like you, as far as job professionalism goes. That’s what I think the issue is, is a person mentally and physically fit, qualified, etc for their job, military or civilian.
Even though homosexuality is not a crime and not a reason to be locked in a mental asylum, I’m sure some think that way and that’s why we’re experiencing such harsh statements here. Putting that aside, if the only difference between 2 servicemen, for example, is that one is heterosexual and the other is not, then how is one more capable of serving than the other?
The only disruption I see is coming from homophobia. What are you afraid of? It seems like you are afraid of being desired, looked at, touched, (and in the back of your mind, raped), by someone of a gender you do not have romantic or sexual interest in. I think one would object just as much to ANYONE doing that on the job, gay or straight. But just because someone is gay does not mean that that is their intention. Do you really believe that non-heterosexuals are so sex crazy as to constantly fantasize, leer, and grope? even in the workplace? and that heterosexuals are not??? I feel that this is the biggest misconception about non-heterosexual people. This misconception is what clouds our thinking to categorize all sorts of criminals and deviants along with homosexuality. That is hardly the case. (If you really fear such things then never dress in an attractive manner, do not wear swimwear, do not go to the gym, do not place sports, etc. just to avoid any chance of a gay person remotely finding you attractive and you then somehow get gay cooties.)
My friend’s husband has 20+ years and continues to serve proudly, but he may also be described as a non-gay male who is very gay supportive. One of my former co-workers was in the Marines and was a drill sergeant. Oh and she was and continues to be a very proud lesbian and ex-Marine. There have been some very fine servicepeople discharged simply because they are not heterosexual and that seems injust to me.
I think its good that they stopped DADT and that they segregated the rooms for gays and straights
Well done US for finally catching up with the rest of the world.
It’s been illegal to discriminate against homosexuals in most of the British Armed Forces since the end of the 60′s; so kudos on only being half a century behind the rest of the world, both sociologically and culturally.
This is what happens when you let neo-Nazi right-wing Republican genecidal maniacs like Bush run the country, in the UK if there was someone who deserted his national service, had an addiction to alcohol and drugs, and also was borderline retarded; we’d provide them with free healthcare and support; we wouldn’t elect them to lead the country and talk about democracy, despite the fact he lost an election and had to get his brother to rig the results.
Mind you, the British Isles has almost 8,000 years of history; the US has a week last Tuesday and if it wasn’t for the slice of cheese on a BigMac, the country wouldn’t have any culture; so is it any wonder that the fictional words of an invisible man that lives in a sky has such an influence on a backwash nation where 1 in 4 people believe in angels, and where 1 in 5 people believe that Haggis is a life animal, and not the intestines of a sheep.
Everyone has equal rights and should not be looked at as a disease because of their personal interests. You don’t choose to be or not to be gay. It’s genetic, just like how I love women. As a backwards example if I was supposed to love men, I couldn’t I vomit at the thought of another man doing dirty things to me. Just shut up and accept other people for who they are or go drown in your own sorrows because the world isn’t how you want it to be
And to add, in warfare, I don’t see a woman and think oh boy i gotta get me some of that. I think, “oh shit, my life is in danger, I need to live” the thought of a piece of ass does not cross my mind when it comes to preserving my life
im not very sure it was a good move… how does it help them? they could be in it before but they just couldn’t tell and it makes the the others feel uncomfortable.. and everyone who is saying “omg just cuz ur religion doesn’t allow it!” rly?? is that rly what ur gonna say? if u expect us to have tolerance with them why cant u have tolerance towards our beliefs??
I am gay and wanted to be in the military and want to serve equally. To me sexuality has no place in a professional environment and needs to stay outside. I never want to be treated as if i am any less of a man. The sad part is i wanted to serve my country and i have some people saying its not right for gays to be in the military. I mean this usually comes from people who have never served i am sorry but i have chosen to put my life on the line and not many people would do that. Another thing that i hate about this repeal is just because i have the right to serve openly don’t mean i want to serve openly. When the repeal first started i had people none stop asking me. I just don’t understand why it is so important that they know. But of course i hate to lie so i stayed honest and just carry on with my day to day tasks. Bottom line is i am not asking to be accepted but all i am asking is for respect just as i would give.
People should understand just because you can ask someone if they are gay don’t mean you should. If a person decides to enlist isn’t that enough i came in the military to be treated as equal. If they want to keep that to themselves let them. Its called respect.
I think for all the guys who are worried about showering with another possibly gay man, do ya have something to hide or what? Some shortcoming, hmmmmm? Your insecurity is showing big time!!!
So why is it important for a Gay to make a big deal that he is Gay, Why cant he keep his or her private life in their own bedroom, most could care less and we DONT need you saying I am gay we dont care.my attitude the more guys that like guys leaves more girls for us straight guys.and we dont run around yelling I AM STRAIGHT.
“Gays are able to shower in a room full of the sex they find attractive. Can Heteros do this?
We have granted a privalage to gays that heterosexual do not and never had.”
Solution: Showers are now co-ed. BACHING.
Problem solved.
“i think its easy to see how even a very open-minded person could be made uncomfortable by showering or sleeping in close quarters with someone who could be sexually attracted to them when theyre straight. Its a very hard issue to work out, and im not sure what people can do. i think the dont ask dont tell policy is the best we have for right now, but hopefully something better comes along in the future.”
First of all, any guy who thinks a gay guy is attracted to him only because he is gay, isn’t attractive to anyone. He’s just self-centered.
And so far, open service of gays in the military has worked for years in Canada and Britain. Then again, they’re not bomb-crazy blokes achin to spit, fuck lewd women, and get their asses into any war they can get into for the sake of oil like Americans are. But hey, if America is lucky, they could be mild-mannered like the rest of the world. Doubtful though.
Does it really matter if the man who saved your life in Iraq was gay or straight?
I also don’t understand the concept that some people have in their heads that once DADT is repealed that suddenly gays will be pouring from the wood works in spandex swathed in rainbow flags and tonguing each other’s ears while right next to some chap fighting some Afghani.
Or that there will be cat-calling in the showers or pinching people’s asses. (“straight” guys do this anyway)
Gay people are held to the same decorum and professionalism as everyone else. They won’t be going to every fucking barracks and whisper into every soldiers ear the nasty wet sexual things that they’d do to them. You can expect most to keep quiet about it of their own accord, as they’re doing now.
Simply put, if they are “outed” by accident, it won’t mean the end of their career, as it was in the past.
To those who are uncomfortable being with people who might be attracted to them, get over it. So Bobby from next bunk thinks you’re cute. Feel slightly flattered, reassure yourself of your straight-hood and get on with life. He’s not going to rape you.
You clearly know nothing about the policy. Prior to Don’t ask, Don’t tell, Homosexuality was strictly banned in the services. What Don’t ask, Don’t tell did was state that a person’s sexuality was their own business and opened the door to allow gays into the military.
Gays and Bis should not be in the military, if we just keep excepting every little thing then we will end up in a corrupt world, what ever happen to Christianity? Morals? I mean think about it, whats next? Letting nazis and gang members into the military and let then openly say how they feel? Every little thing is about homosexuals now, say 2 boys commit suicide and one of them is gay, they are going to make a big deal about the one that is gay simply because he is gay, homosexuality is wrong, and the military is the last place they need to be
This has got to be one of the most trivial questions I’ve ever seen on a subject as serious as this regarding the United States military. We’ve had congressional hearings on this, there’s been much debate, from military personnel and their families, all the way up to the President of the United States. To post such a trivial question as “oh, who coined the term” is a waste of Yahoo’s time and resources. Yahoo should stop allowing Mike to post triviality like this. ‘Nough said.
Any comment relating to a religion or some “spiritual” concept is not valid in any way. The only reason this matters is that the military makes you take group showers. This is more “gay” than I am comfortable with. I would much rather serve next to a gay person and take showers by my self then serve next to “heterosexuals” only and take group (gay) showers. This policy is about perception and culture not any objective problem with gay people in the military. If you ask me, gays being open in the military can only be good- It will help them end the horrid practice of group showers (Just Kidding). I don’t really care actually since it is our puritanical conceptions of nudity and sex that are the problem. If group showers are the norm, than they should not be separated by sex since gay people are a fact of life no matter what anyone claims their orientation to be! People need to control their impulses and treat all people with respect and honor.
“Christianity is the “religion of America” is like saying we should be able to beat women and own slaves because “Christianity permits it”.
Your complete ignorance of true Christianity is showing.